onionsoupmix: Ooh, let's ban immodest bicyclists.

happyduck1979, 2008-11-25 02:08 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-25 02:34 pm UTC

antidos, 2008-11-25 02:54 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

antidos, 2008-11-25 07:24 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

Re: Let us stop avoiding reality -

antidos, 2008-11-25 11:12 pm UTC

	Since you have gone to law school (Anonymous) 2008-11-25 11:08 am UTC (link)
	You posts have become predictable, boring and repetitious There is no religous or secular humanist obligation to blog if you do not have scintillating and fascinating material to regale us with. Give it a rest, pass your tests, and pick it up again when you return to the real world- i.e. when you finally get a job. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Since you have gone to law school onionsoupmix 2008-11-25 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	Ha-ha-ha. If you are looking for scintillating and fascinating material, dude, you would have stopped reading this blog a long time ago. As a rule, I blog about what interests me and entertaining my audience is not at all a goal. But I suspect you knew that:) (Reply to this) (Parent)

(Reply from suspended user)

	Let us stop avoiding reality (Anonymous) 2008-11-25 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	Madam; You used to post fascinating stuff. Oh well,yet another good mind seduced by the promise of scads of filthy lucre is sucked into the black hole that is the stultifying world of American shysterdom. Your Conscience -henceforth Y/C (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Let us stop avoiding reality antidos 2008-11-25 02:52 pm UTC (link)
	Is your post an indicator of lack of ability to gain admission into a law school ? :) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Let us stop avoiding reality - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 06:11 am UTC

	Re: Let us stop avoiding reality onionsoupmix 2008-11-25 04:25 pm UTC (link)
	My Conscience: Like what? What did you find fascinating that I no longer post about? Parsha questions? This topic really interests me and I find it odd that this is boring to you. How about my post on the black-kippah guys taking the NYC don't- solicit-hookers class? Was that boring also? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Let us stop avoiding reality - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 06:06 am UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 01:22 pm UTC

Re: Let us stop avoiding reality - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 02:16 pm UTC

Re: Let us stop avoiding reality -

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 10:27 pm UTC

antidos
2008-11-25 02:49 pm UTC (link)

But of course, the sight of an immodestly dressed woman on a bike would ruin my pure soul, while I am hurrying up to visit my concubine next street :)

As for the your statement that what you wear and what you eat impacts your yiras shomaim, this is 100% right. In order to preserve my yiras shomaim, I am now very careful to wear blouses which cover everything and long skirts without slits, which cover my knee no matter whether I am sitting, standing or walking. Also I decided to take on myself the additional chumrah of wearing an oyber malbush which I am going to borrow from my wife ;)

	onionsoupmix 2008-11-25 04:15 pm UTC (link)
	It is very important to have a pure soul when visiting your pilegesh. Otherwise, the children you create may not have the highest level of neshamos. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

antidos, 2008-11-25 07:17 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

antidos, 2008-11-26 12:53 am UTC

sethg_prime, 2008-11-26 01:18 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2008-11-25 04:40 pm UTC (link)

Do I think that some aspects of the shidduch scene in that group are rather extreme? Yes, and I base my opinion on descriptions from women who are still living in that group and have no plans to leave.

However, is the internet cheating phenomenon any worse in that community than in the rest of society? I have no indication that it is. It's a universal phenomenon. I see it every day, in people from all backgrounds.

Personally, I had been with my husband for 8 years by the time we married, so I have trouble relating to the meet-for-an-hour-then-get-married thing. However, some couples seem to be able to turn to each other and forge a bond during the marriage. For some reason, that didn't work for the couples in the article, and they turned elsewhere for satisfaction. I wonder, on a basic level, if this is so different from a mainstream couple failing to communicate and support each other, and looking at outside relationship for excitement, ego boost, and the allure of a relationship not bogged down by the practical realities of married life.

JRKmommy

onionsoupmix
2008-11-25 06:41 pm UTC (link)

You know why it's different? I'll tell you.

1.) The frum community holds itself out to be better and holier than the rest of secular society. And they are no different. They have the same issues. Stop pretending Jews are made of sugar and spice and everything nice and goyim are made out of snails and puppy dog tails.

2.) The level of blindness by the rabbis is simply astounding. Stop blaming the delay in the messiah's arrival on whether or not women wear bobby socks in your community or whether they wear bulletproof tights in the summer. Look around at the real problems and try to address those. Oh, wait. First we have to admit that these problems exist and are not just made up by the evil anti-religious media.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	chocolatesara 2008-11-25 05:03 pm UTC (link)
	Most probably these situations (okay, not the Bike situation) occured all along, but now news travels faster and people are a lot less anonymous. (Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)

onionsoupmix
2008-11-25 06:47 pm UTC (link)

The obssession with tznius is for this precise reason- if you see a female outline, even it just happens to be a particularly curvy tree, you might be tempted to go and screw a shiksa or even worse, masturbate. Of course it is not your fault, it is the female outline who is to blame. So female outlines should not be seen. Curvy trees need to be chopped down. Wait a few years. Now the rule becomes if you see a tree, any tree, you must chop it down because it might remind you of a curvy tree. If you think my analogy is extreme, take a look at how the issur against slits evolved. First, slits above the knee were a no-no. Now all slits, even those below the knee are forbidden. Why? Well, because, look at the poor men. If they see a bit of leg and then they don't and then they see a bit of leg and then they don't- this might remind them to think of what is under the skirt in the first place. And we mustn't have that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

antidos, 2008-11-25 07:30 pm UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-25 07:57 pm UTC

antidos, 2008-11-25 11:07 pm UTC

Tree porn -

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 12:19 am UTC

Re: Tree porn -

antidos, 2008-11-26 12:45 am UTC

Re: Tree porn -

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 01:15 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

antidos, 2008-11-25 11:07 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

antidos, 2008-11-26 12:54 am UTC

antidos, 2008-11-26 01:10 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

now this is google translator version -

antidos, 2008-11-26 03:17 am UTC

antidos, 2008-11-26 03:21 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2008-11-25 07:08 pm UTC (link)

Aah, i love the hipster thing...what is a hipster??
I also think it's better they have the bikelane with women cyclists on the bikes because then the men will stay home at least to wank by the window instead of going to the street out the area where the cyclists roam and wank in public (or a dark street, or end up finding a whore).

As for the CBS footage. The reason it is worse for the chassidic community to be doing such things is because they shout and complain about the cyclist and make as if they are so pure minded and perfect and they dress as if they are attending a funeral everyday...a bit like the Puritans who couldn't do anything.
They also go on about their wonderful shidduch system which is a disaster zone and if they aren't out cheating on each other then they are on the anti depressents or anti psychotics (depends how bad it got) and then their kids end up on the same drugs.
We had a woman coming into the chemist the other day complaining about a box of multivitamins that are aimed at pregnant women called Pregnacare and on the box it has a picture of a woman who is pregnant and she shows her arms too...the women said the box should be turned over because it's not good for the boys to see it. I would say if she thinks boys will react to that then they ought to seek some psychiatric help. We also had someone telling us the picture on a packet of breastpads was porn and children shouldn't see it. I guess she buys baby magazines for her daily dose of porn.
R

onionsoupmix
2008-11-25 07:55 pm UTC (link)

We had a woman coming into the chemist the other day complaining about a box of multivitamins that are aimed at pregnant women called Pregnacare and on the box it has a picture of a woman who is pregnant and she shows her arms too...the women said the box should be turned over because it's not good for the boys to see it. I would say if she thinks boys will react to that then they ought to seek some psychiatric help. We also had someone telling us the picture on a packet of breastpads was porn and children shouldn't see it. I guess she buys baby magazines for her daily dose of porn

LOL. But seriously, I would bet $$$ on that woman's husband being a sex addict. This is probably her sad way of dealing with it. Close off any reference to females and no more problem.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-11-27 03:56 pm UTC

	(Anonymous) 2008-11-25 08:26 pm UTC (link)
	Am I going to be forced to make my "fire in Tonawanda" analogy again? JRKmommy (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 01:12 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-11-27 07:06 am UTC

theunveiling, 2008-11-26 12:42 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-11-27 07:08 pm UTC

	chocolatesara 2008-11-25 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	Being desensitized isn't necessary a good thing, you know. (Reply to this)

sethg_prime
2008-11-25 08:44 pm UTC (link)

Well, the bicycle thing is stupid on a variety of levels. If you want to live in a city where the mishmeret tzniut keeps the streets free of exposed female elbows, Bnei Brak is just a plane flight away. If you want to live in der treyfe medinah, you have to accept that not everybody you see (or, gasp, jostle) on the street is going to follow your standards of modesty.

I don't know if the skin-obsession that leads to the bicycle complaints is necessarily related to adultery in the community. Every sizable community of every religious persuasion is likely to have some adultery going on. So do high modesty standards make adultery more or less likely? I don't know how one could even collect reliable data.

PS: you know the joke about why the gedolim are going to let the cherem of Rabbeinu Gershom expire, right?

PPS: to all the anonymoose whining "this blog used to be good but now it isn't", you can respond "I must have missed the part where I was put under any obligation towards you whatsoever."

PPPS: personally, I blame capitalism for changing standards of modesty, but I have not worked out my manifesto for Socialism In One Shtetl.

I don't know if it's the same joke as the one I know -

(Reply from suspended user)

chanief, 2008-11-25 11:26 pm UTC

Re: I don't know if it's the same joke as the one I know -

sethg_prime, 2008-11-25 11:45 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

Re: I don't know if it's the same joke as the one I know - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 06:48 am UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 12:33 am UTC

sethg_prime, 2008-11-26 01:33 pm UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-27 03:20 am UTC

Sad, but true?

theunveiling
2008-11-25 10:35 pm UTC (link)

My mother is having a very hard time believing the story about extramarital affairs in the Hasidic community, but why couldn't it happen there? Of course they're frum, but they're also human beings and times are changing. As much as they would like to hold onto the way things used to be, sadly for them, I think things will gradually erode as the result of a changing society. I have a lot of respect for the Hasidim, truly, but I don't know how they can deny that there are people in their communities that stray.

As for the bikers, I really can't side with the frumsters. They don't own their neighborhood and they cannot keep people from going in/out of it, nor can they dictate what some goy wears while bicycling through a city street.

	Re: Sad, but true? antidos 2008-11-25 11:10 pm UTC (link)
	A Russian friend of my wife, freshly frum, spent once half an hour in the center of Geulah in Jerusalem. She was saying that several bochrim approached her for you know what. She was dressed kosher, but perhaps not to the standard of the local community, or perhaps her face expression was not tznius enough. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sad, but true? -

theunveiling, 2008-11-26 12:39 pm UTC

Why do I have to repeat myself?

24816
2008-11-25 11:20 pm UTC (link)

Jews as a nation are better.
http://www.sedmoykanal.org/news.php3?id=97058
By trashing Jews you discourage people to lead and to follow.
It’s like parents, however imperfect, they still represent best leadership model there is.
Only people who don’t know how secular world corrodes (after 3 generations past religious ancestors) can appreciate your primitive liberal worldview.
Jews are also human (see again the above link) and they are influenced by their surrounding, that’s why some group try to barricade themselves. This is very old question – should we internalize evil to master it or should we stay kodesh and what does kodesh mean.
But you became snappy recently, is it you-know-what, or is it your new training talking?
-FI

	Re: Why do I have to repeat myself? onionsoupmix 2008-11-26 12:25 am UTC (link)
	thanks for asking, I am just finishing up my time of ritual impurity so it's not my "you-know-what" (Reply to this) (Parent)

sethg_prime, 2008-11-26 01:40 pm UTC

24816, 2008-11-26 05:54 pm UTC

sethg_prime, 2008-11-26 07:42 pm UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 10:28 pm UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 10:28 pm UTC

I'll take a stab at it

chanief
2008-11-25 11:33 pm UTC (link)

The connection is that, nebach, the sight of the women dressed in an untznius maner in the bike lanes, is awakening all sorts of taivos and leading the pure yidishe neshamas to sin by going outside of their marriages for a little something spicy on the side... Am I right? Do I win a... oh, never mind you weren't offering a prize for this one.

The reality is that it's not just the Chassidishe community that is seeing an increase in infidelity. It's the general frum community, oy, could I tell you stories...

I blame the internet. It is the root of all evil and the frum community was perfect before it came along. It's mamesh a tragic situation. IY"H when Moshiach comes we'll live in a utopian paradise without any treife modern technology.

(I think I just made myself sick.)

Re: Let's stay positive and the the that could be made there. -

	Re: I'll take a stab at it onionsoupmix 2008-11-26 01:06 am UTC (link)
	You win the nonexistent prize. Women on bicycles are responsible for all the evils in the world. Don't get me started on women who drive cars. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Let's stay positive and the the that could be made there. - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 01:18 am UTC

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 01:56 am UTC

Re: Let's stay positive and the the that could be made there. - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 02:08 am UTC

Re: I'll take a stab at it - (Anonymous), 2008-11-26 01:41 am UTC

Re: I'll take a stab at it -

onionsoupmix, 2008-11-26 02:34 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2008-11-26 03:09 pm UTC (link)

People are human, and have weakness. We know that. So, what do we do about it?

The frum community responds via strict adherence and making "fences". The problem, IMO, starts when you cross the line from making legit "fences" intended to address a weakness, into developing a bifurcated personality ie. having the self-righteous personality that will go on the attack against others, while at the same time having the secret side that engages in vices.

I've dealt with some people who were dealing with this issue in their personality. For some, it can become a vicious cycle - do something they feel is wrong, feel really guilty and unable to have an outlet to deal with that guilt, feel increased stress and pressure as a result, resolve to be better, get overwhelmed in a weak moment under the stress and pressure, cycle continues. Sometimes, the guilt and anger gets displaced - it's like yelling at your family because you had a bad day at work. Yelling at the world, and particularly blaming the women closest to you for your frustration with the outside world and your own weaknesses, is that kind of displacement.

JRKmommy

	onionsoupmix 2008-11-26 10:23 pm UTC (link)
	Very astute analysis. I completely agree. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Duh
(Anonymous)
2008-11-26 07:37 pm UTC (link)

Um, hello, everyone?
Women are obviously the source of all of the ills in the world. Just look at bereishis: "ezer kenegdo" Women will be the helpers if men are worthy, and the opposition if man is not worthy, and we know that man is not worthy in our lowly generation, bc of yeridas hadoros. Therefore, I pasken that it is a mitzvah min hatorah to kill all women you meet. We must overcome the opposition, those evil women, with their breasts and such evil body parts. So tempting, so terrible, they must be the incarnation of the satan himself! If you rape them first, it's not such a big deal; maybe it will even help with their kaporah in shamayim!
Oh, wait! The Torah also talks about four corners of the world, and we know now that the world is round...ah, that's just metaphorical. Never mind. Oh, and the sun moving backwards...but the sun doesn't revolve around us, after all, we know that now...okay, that must be metaphorical, too. It's fine.
Go rape and kill women lesheim shamayim! Then Moshiach will come and we will live a Utopian life!

Margo