onionsoupmix ([info]onionsoupmix) wrote,
@ 2009-04-02 00:58:00
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Entry tags:crazy

The Great Depression

Yeah, the economic crisis is hitting everyone hard.

Layoffs, foreclosures, higher food prices, tighter budgets. We are all penny-pinching. But nothing compares to the sacrifices of the good people of Bnei Brak. 

According to the daily Yisrael HaYom, economic realities have compelled setting a ceiling for shidduchim as well, up to $40,000 for a choson and up to $25,000 for a kalah.

What? What am I missing here? Are these the same people who collect money door to door for their schools and their kollels and their food pantries and their chessed organizations? I must be missing something here.


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[info]tatianalarina
2009-04-02 05:26 am UTC (link)
What's the next generation going to do?

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[info]hannahsarah
2009-04-02 06:07 am UTC (link)
I know lots of haredi people in Israel, and none of them have, or expect, that kind of cash. They work hard, they study hard, they live on the very edge of poverty and they have household budgets figured down the the shekel.

I'm sure that some people feel like they need to keep up with the Jonesbergs, but that happens in every segment of society, not just frum Jews.

ETA: I just read all of the comments on that article. My faith in humanity has been temporarily restored. :-D



Edited at 2009-04-02 06:17 am UTC

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[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 06:41 am UTC (link)
So whom is this article about? How do the rabbis have to work hard to set a limit on paying 40K for a dowry? Is that for the rich folks? How many rich folks are there in Bnei Brak?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]hannahsarah
2009-04-02 07:44 am UTC (link)
Well, apparently there aren't ENOUGH rich folks in Bnei Brak, hence the edict!

I remember several years ago, when I was first becoming observant, that there was a big thing about putting caps on the cost of bar mitzvas, because it was causing severe embarrassment to the families who couldn't afford a big party with full catering. Some people complained at first, but everyone is much happier now.

In my shul, there is a HUGE income gap between the "founding families of Seattle" and the "chessed fund" families. There is very little middle class around here, but fortunately the snobbery stays pretty far below the surface for the most part. It's pretty rare when you can actually see any elitism.

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[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 08:09 am UTC (link)
I didn't know there were any rich families in BB. If there are, I would wonder why they are not subsidizing the ones who come here asking for help getting meals on the table. Why spend 40K to find a boy for your darling daughter when you could feed 40 families for a couple of months on that?

I am not feeling the vibe here.

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[info]hannahsarah
2009-04-02 08:55 am UTC (link)
I'm with ya!

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[info]mrn613
2009-04-02 01:04 pm UTC (link)
I get people asking all the time for money for dowries. I recently got emails asking for items, but only if they were *new* ! Anyway, I do think people in bnai brak manage to collect $25,000 per child they marry off. They get $100 from 250 people.

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[info]livelife73
2009-04-02 03:22 pm UTC (link)
but 100x25=only $2500 not 25,000

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[info]mrn613
2009-04-02 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I said $100 times 250

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[info]livelife73
2009-04-02 05:49 pm UTC (link)
sorry, my coffee deprived brain ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]lostreality
2009-04-02 03:40 pm UTC (link)
so what is this money for? A dowry? A shadchun fee? I'm not clear.

I personally would never get married if I had to depend on other people for money- I've very proud of the fact that we are not accepting any money from anyone for the wedding, and are paying it out of the money we both earned and put away in savings. Although i'm not turning down a free honeymoon from my in-laws either. :)

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[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 04:54 pm UTC (link)
It seems from the article that this is a dowry type thing which includes an apartment for the new couple and supporting them while he learns in kollel. Which is nice if the parents want to pay for that, whatever, but now that people cannot get married without such an arrangment- why should we subsidize that?

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Its good you hang out a Chabad
(Anonymous)
2009-04-02 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Most young Chabad couples get zilch -which is good they can go out an make an honest living fund raising for their Chabad House :-)

(Reply to this)

You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]24816
2009-04-02 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Let’s test your logic on general US public. What if some religious leader put a cap on spending in time of recession? Would it make you cry that all their charities are fraud?

If not, then you have to agree that your notions about religious lifestyles are quite bias.But if you still believe that religious people are destined to be poor, does the following sound familiar?

…My parents were poor immigrants who were just learning about religion. My classmates lived in mansions and celebrated wedding -style bat mitzvahs…

-FI

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 05:22 pm UTC (link)
It is very nice that some religious leaders are putting a cap on spending. It is shocking that this cap is so high. See, I thought that those people were really poor and had trouble putting food on the table and buying matzah for pesach. Now I see that this is a scam and they are having trouble putting food on the table because they are busy buying grooms for their daughters for more money than I would spend on two cars combined. I don't understand the rest of your post.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]24816
2009-04-02 05:30 pm UTC (link)
I was trying to explain that there are really rich people who perhaps give a lot of chartiy.
If people are dying in Africa, you still take your children to amusement parks. If some people are poor, you give them charity and may or may not alter your own lifestyle.
Some people who use charity are fraud, but most of them couldn't afford lavish wedding. And some show-off will be relieved that they don't have to fake their status that much.
I see your post as a scheme to confuse public with who is who.
-FI

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 06:38 pm UTC (link)
There are not enough rich people in Bnei Brak that the rabbis have to put out an edict against them spending so much money. This is the poorest area of Israel, not Long Island here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]24816
2009-04-02 06:45 pm UTC (link)
then there must be enough show-offs.
The status must be important for various reasons (business, influense, future matchmaking...)

My family is not rich, but when I arrange modest celebrations my children look down at me. They prefer to make debts and pay them off for years to come.
-FI

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-02 06:51 pm UTC (link)
You children did not have you buy an apartment and a car for them as a prerequisite to getting engaged, even before the expenses of a wedding... Maybe think back a bit more and see what they asked you to contribute to the wedding expenses.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: You are going to be such a smart lawyer!
[info]24816
2009-04-02 06:53 pm UTC (link)
They know who they deal with.
-FI

(Reply to this) (Parent)
chandelier
(Anonymous)
2009-04-03 06:12 am UTC (link)
OK, you covered the price of the chandelier, but what about the apartment?

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: chandelier
[info]onionsoupmix
2009-04-03 12:22 pm UTC (link)
lol, that's the best part- these people think that the psak of the rabbis allowing the $$$ to be limited to 40K is a HUGE breakthrough. So I guess they will have to live only with chandelier.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: chandelier
[info]24816
2009-04-03 03:24 pm UTC (link)
I came from the old school where people didn’t have credit cards, etc. When I first got married, my father gave us everything he had, which was not much, if I remember it right we used this money to rent a room. But we didn’t expect much. We financed wedding by asking friends to bring 10 rubles each in lieu of presents.
But, at the same time my father applied for apartment on our behalf and when it didn’t work he accepted position (with housing) in another part of country and left his old apartment to us.
So my understanding is that you can take credit for housing but not for the wedding, thus I completely agree with limiting wedding expenses. This should give break to show-offs.
-FI

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-26 12:27 pm UTC (link)
This is insane. They come all the way to Europe or the US collecting for this. i didn't even get close to that when i got married and i still don't own a home and my car was very cheap which i paid for.

Also note that alot of the these rich people who are such charity givers are actually cheating the government. So basically this sort of mentality and lifestyle is sustained with ill gotten gains.

These so called bochorim should be learning a living and sustaining their own families instead of schnorring off everyone else and now due to the ecnomonic crisis they suddenly have to cap their expectations to only $65k per couple. Meanwhile there are those that are truly starving but i don't see people trying to collect even half that amount that is for just one couple for a whole family.
R

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